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First Apples.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 2189


Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: First Apples.  Reply with quote

We have an annoying dessert Apple tree. This tree has a fruit looking not unlike a Cox but of a lesser tasting quality, but it is a very early cropper. I say annoying because I check it for ripeness one day. Not ready yet! Next morning most of the crop is shed on the ground . I am curious to know the variety. Any ideas lads?. I will post a pic when I get to stir out of the bed.  
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayland, by your description,  I'm fairly sure your tree is a Beauty of Bath.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 2189


Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard of "Beauty of Bath" but never actually come acrossed it. I know it to be an early apple and not the best tasting by all accounts. Which fits this one. Being very early is the plus but at best its ok. Heres some pics.





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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. That's Beauty of Bath all right.  Not the best of apples - the only thing it has going for it is its earliness.  George Cave is a much better early.  If you're interested in grafting over, I can send you scion wood next Spring.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will take you up on that Sean cheers. I have done a bit of grafting in the past with the old Whip and Tongue method. Also with an old tree we would cut off some boughs close to the trunk, and partially split the stub with a Bill hook and put two  scions in the split. If you catch me drift. Do you have a favourite method?
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on the size of the stockwood.  If the stock and the scion are pretty much the same size, I use the whip and tongue.  Up to about two inches, I usually put in two cleft grafts - like you describe.  If the branch is bigger than that, I put in three rind grafts.  I find a big branch takes a long time to close up if you split it and rain and earwigs and so on get down into the split.  With the rind grafts,  you can let them grow away till the cut branch is healed and then cut off two of the tree.  But I have had success doing the cleft graft on big branches like you describe. I'll try to post a pic..
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Yarlington Mill, grafted over three years ago.


Successful rind graft.


Successful whip and tongue graft.


Old cleft graft. The graft took well but, as you can see, the cleft never really sealed itself up. The tree seems none the worse though.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice pics Sean. You are obviously an expert at this grafting. I have not come across a "Rind Graft" before, it looks similar to a bud graft as used on Roses. I will Google and see whats what. With your "Cleft" graft. Do you seal the wound surface with soft bitumen/ wax etc?
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rind graft is easy Wayland.  You just slit the bark, lift it out slightly and slip the shaped scion down between the rind and the wood; tie it up firmly and wax it over.  But you must do it around April when the sap is running, otherwise the bark doesn't lift so easy.  You can do a cleft graft anytime because you don't have to lift the bark. I do seal the cleft with wax, but, like I say, I don't use that graft on big branches anymore - with rind grafts you have no split to seal up.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Sean. Rinds, I got it and intend to try it next spring. As I remember it. We kept the scions healed in for a while to ensure the sap was well and truly rising in the parent tree. This was all
collage stuff and so a good deal of theory as opposed to practical skill.
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cut my scions in February and keep them in a plastic bag in the fridge till I need them.  No fruit or vegetables in the fridge with them, mind, as the ethylene they give off would cause the scions to break dormancy.  Heeling them in a shady place works too. Let me know which varieties you want and I'll keep them for you.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do. Cheers.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a rake of these apples to the mart yesterday and they flew out of the door. Very pleased.
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that's the case Wayland,  I'd be very lazy grafting it over!  In fact I might be asking you for scions to graft over one of mine to Beauty of Bath!  I don't consider it a good apple, but the customer is always right.  And, when you think of it, a home-grown, unsprayed b.of b. Is far preferable to a supermarket cox that's been sprayed seven times before it reaches the shelf!
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make a good point Sean. I will leave it as it is. I do have other poor croppers and have decided to get shot of them. Perhaps I could revitalise them. One of which is the Cox. It grows well enough but I get very few blossoms on it. This is despite a pruning regime to encourage fruiting spurs. I told it two years ago that I would have it out if it did not behave!
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cox's orange pippin is one of the most difficult of apples to grow. It's susceptible to just about every ailment known to apples. It works  well if you're prepared to spray the hell out of it, otherwise there are better choices.I always recommend Kidd's Orange Red to people. Back in the 1970s it looked ready to take over the cox market only the supermarkets decided they didn't want it - it wasn't uniform size.
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there you go then. The Cox is for grafting. Do any of you lads grow Pears? If so how are they doing? I have planted six trees but no pears. I noticed even in the garden centres the pot grown trees have little or no fruit.
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Sean Ph'lib



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 485



PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I grow them. I have Concorde, Conference, Williams Bon Cretien and Alexander Lucas.  The last two are only young trees, so nothing much on them yet, but the Conference and especially the Concorde are nearly breaking under the weight of the crop.  I will have to support the branches.


Concorde



Conference

Sorry about the poor quality of the pics.
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DerynC



Joined: 03 Nov 2015
Posts: 197


Location: North Kerry

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a lovely crop of pears. What will you do with them all?
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wayland



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 2189


Location: The Sunny South East

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`m sick as a pig! Must get some Bees.

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