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phil · Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject:

Its a fact that suckler and dairy cows are deliberately inseminated with beef bulls such as Charolaise to get a bigger beef animal and jacking calves out is not restricted to first time heifers or older cows,and its a long way off from being a rare event.

dara · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Mayo

Suckler herds are comprised of beef breeds - that's the idea!
The second of the biggest 'selling' points used when the societies such as the british fresian soc ' promote their breeds is ease of calving - can you guess why?
But according to your logic farmers deliberately inseminate their precious stock knowing that will probably ensure that the cow will not be able to calve unassisted. I 'spose they can't wait to get in there and get stuck in or better still give the vet a ring and let her perform a nice section and really fuck things up.

Get back to the facts. You posted a dubious 'study' from a muslim group advocating halal slaughter over western methods but cannot find any other references to this 'important work' anywhere else on the web.
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quarryman · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 417 Location: Sligo

If we leave the Halal word out of the discussion we are left with two types of slaughter, one, a bolt to the head, the other, cutting the throat. One is mostly done in the factory the other can be done on the farm. I have always thought is was better and less stressful for the animal to be killed on the farm.

My personal opinion is that there would be less overall stress for the animal to have it's throat cut on the farm rather than being packed into a trailer brought to a factory where they can sense the distress of the other animals, smell the blood etc.

It's no wonder that I am almost a vegetarian.

dara · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Mayo

Quarryman, I think you're right.
I have a captive bolt stunner and have assisted many to kill their own stock on farm in my area. But you still have to restrain the beast in some way as the device needs to be in contact with the head in the optimal position - you can pith the brain through the wound to ensure brain activity ceases immediately. To avoid stress (to animal and owner) I prefer to use a free bullet (not in a concrete enclosed space). A .22 subsonic hollow point will drop anything instantly and the margin for error is greatly reduced. Both are stunning methods - the animals heart will continue to beat offering ample time to blood let if carried out quickly and competently.
The Humane slaughter association - an independant charity - works tirelessly to promote animal welfare in a number of areas based on the best technical and scientific advances. They are highly respected and represented in animal welfare groups, the meat industry and veterinary organisations. They advocate best practice but do not advocate bleeding without stunning.
http://www.hsa.org.uk

Anyone done any fishing lately?

Paddy · Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 17

There is no argument with this whatsoever......all you have to do is answer honestly which would you prefer to be done to you!!

I dont think too many would opt for the knife method..

phil · Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject:

Dara.
That's a rather fanciful interpretation of what i said, read it again
This is a fairly long article but worth reading.

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html

dara · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Mayo

If I've interpreted the gyst behind your point wrongly I apologise but when you use the words 'deliberately inseminate' I assume you were refering to a premeditated action that would eventually result in pain and destress.
However I still fail to see the analogy between jacking calves and slashing throats. The calf has to come out regardless whether or not someone behaved recklessly in putting it there. But why does an animal have to be slaughtered without first being desensitised?
I read the second article and thought it objective. Unlike the first. One glaring point of issue between the two was that the second article stated that EEG recordings are not measures of pain. I assume you will accept this as fact?
My issue with the whole ritual killing thing is this. 1400 years ago, when all this stuff was drafted, a bedouin in the desert had no other choice than to slaughter in this manner. He was advised to keep things 'clean' and use a sharp knife which sounds sensible enough unless you're a sadist. Today we have choices based on science - which we choose depends on us unless, of course, we are fervently bound by our religion.

phil · Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject:

I totally accept the findings,even though one of the authors is Jewish.
Ill try and explain my comparison again,All the focus seems to be the stress the animal goes through while being slaughtered and little or no attention is paid to the stress a cow goes through while giving birth to a big calf,or young bulls and ram lambs being squeezed or horned cattle being skulled. Even if pain can't be measured, i believe these are painful and the pain lasts a lot longer than it takes an animal to die from blood loss.

joker · Joined: 11 Jan 2009 Posts: 23 Location: ROI

So , would you rather have your throat cut in the comfort of your own home ..... or be put in a bus to join a bunch of other people who will be shot through the back of the head ?
Shot at home would have to be the favourite .
With sincere apologies to anyone who is touched by that question . God forbid that any of us might have to make the choice .

Guest · Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject:

the last cople of comments are nonsense but just an opinion. so one of the authors is jewish whats that got to do with it