The Orchard

wayland · The Orchard

We have planted a small orchard this year and I am glad to say that dispite the sodden ground all the trees have put on good growth this summer. I have fourteen apple trees planted and have room for a few more. So what are your favourites?. I liked to grow a few local verities as well as the more popular types so . Whats good to grow in Ireland?

Cheers.

Torc

Hi Wayland,
Have you checked with the Irish Seed Savers Association? They have done great work in saving and propagating local varieties.
Wexford should be good apple-growing country; have a thought for those of us in the windy west. My Katya and Cox's Pippins did well this year but the pigs got more joy out of them than the humans.
I got a local heritage variety of cooker from ISSA, called Ballyvaughan, and it seems to be thriving.

wayland

Hi Torc. I will try the I S S A as you suggest. Thanks for that. I did not let our trees produce much fruit this year and will probably do the same next. We have two old trees of unknown variety which after a severe pruning produced little fruit but tons of growth. They should be in full production next year. Thanks again.

chook

Yep, ISSA's the way to go Wink

My favourite ISSA apple so far is Mrs. Perry (from Donegal), absolutely divine taste. Have planted one but it's too young yet to crop. But they offer a huge variety of apples and there should be plenty listed for the SE.

This is our list:
Katy / Katja, M26, 1997
eater, doing very well, very tasty but does not last long

Red Boskoop, MM106, 1997
dual purpose, doing very well after a slow start, excellent keeper

Grenadier, MM106, 1997
cooker, doing very well, nice for baking etc.

James Grieve, M26, 1997
doing well, heavy crops but prone to scab here even though it's not supposed to be

Irish Peach, MM106, 1998
eater, good crop, very nice + early, small apples but very tasty

Kaiser Wilhelm, MM106, 2002
dual purpose, don't know yet, tree very vigorous + healthy

Redsleeves, M26, 2002
eater, had good crop this year but thanks to the crows I did not get to taste them £$^&*!

Egremont Russet, M111, 2002
don't know yet, tree looks healthy + vigorous

Red Devil, MM106, 2002
as Redsleeves

Jupiter MM106 2002
eater, good + vigorous so far, only got a couple apples this year, tasty

Jonagold, M26, 2002
eater, don't know yet, tree looks good so far

Charles Ross, M26, 2006
eater, don't know yet, tree looks good so far

Early Victoria=Emneth Early, MM106, 2002
cooker, excellent 1. crop this year, totally blemish free large yellow apples, great for baking etc.

Mrs. Perry, 2006, from ISSA
listed as dual-purpose, divine taste, not cropping yet here

Annie Elizabeth M25, 2002
cooker, delicious; first small yield this year, tree exceedingly healthy and vigorous

Dabinette, M25, 2002
cider apple, first crop this year and a good one at that

Winston Winter King, M26, 1999
eater, getting good crops but very late ripening so could do with some more sun than we get here in Clare

Worcester Pearmain, MM106, 1999
eater, lost it to canker

Lord Lambourne, MM106, 1999
eater, lost it to canker but according to a fruit expert who hails from Kenmare a very good choice, will try again (it had canker when it came from the nursery which then spread to the Worcester Pearmain...)

Uncle John's Cooker, M106, 2001 from ISSA,
cooker, don't know yet

Sam Young, M106, 2001 from ISSA
first bit of a yield this year, too early to taste

Gladstone, M106, 2001 from ISSA
eater, don't know yet

Ard Cairn Russet, M25, 2000 from ISSA
eater, don't know yet

Frank's Seedling, M106, 2000 from ISSA
dual purpose, don't know yet

Ballyvaughan Seedling, M106 2000 from ISSA;
dual-purpose, first good yield this year, bit too early to taste yet

Red Gravenstein MM106 2006
eater, don't know yet

I should say that the 6 last listed ISSA trees were planted along our driveway where not only they are more exposed than most others but also got the odd bit of harassment from cows that wandered in from the road and tore at their branches or from goats of ours that broke out. By rights they should be bearing already but they've had a bit of a rough start.

I went mostly with older varieties recommended for northern areas and/or wettish climate, recommended for use in Scotland, and which were said to be relatively disease-resistant. C. 2/3 eater, 1/3 cooker/dual and covering from the earliest August apple to the latest keeper. I bought the first ones from Future Forests in Cork and from Cornucopia in Sligo. The 2002 batch came from England (Frank P. Matthews) together with some interesting pears and Asian pears.
We are in North Clare, about 10 km from the coast and the soil is loamy and relatively well drained (drumlin slope).

HTH
chook

wayland

WOW Chook!. What a great post Very Happy

. I have some of your list already but I will have to go through them and complie a list. I am particularly interested in those that can deel with wetter ground. My land is at the bottom of a slope and is grey clay over broken shale, and is quite thin in places. My orchard seems to be the wettest with springs flowing out of the surface. It was not like this last year Confused

I will be putting in some drainage soon and hope this improves things.

Cheers.

Torc

I'm putting Chook's post up on the wall as something to aim for.
I like the idea of a driveway lined with apples and like all good ideas that come along I'm going to copy it.
I made the mistake of planting too close along a boundary and now my apples have to fight it out with alder, sycamore, ash and god-knows-what else but along the driveway they would get individual attention.

chook

Glad to be of assistance Very Happy

Actually if yous know your way around Excel and filtering, I can e-mail a long list of varieties I compiled when I planned this out.
The list has the varieties, descriptors and columns for
time of use, recommended for Scotland, cold clay, high rainfall, scab/disease resistance, exposed garden, biennial croppers, bloom period, susceptibility to frost, good pollinators etc., good keepers etc.
There was so much info in books and on websites that it was the best way for me to organize it to come up with a shortlist. I should say that ISSA varieties are not in there as I did this before ISSA started selling apple trees.

So for example. if I filter for 'cold clay' and 'high rainfall' together I get
Brownlee's Russet (Brownlea's Russet)
Elton Beauty (James Grieve xWorcester Pearmain)
Grenadier
Lord Derby
Sam Young = Irish Russet
Worcester Permain

If I filter for "recommended for Scotland' and 'high rainfall' I get:
Brownlee's Russet (Brownlea's Russet)
Ellison's Orange
Grenadier
Laxton's Superb
Lord Derby
Monarch
Sam Young = Irish Russet
Worcester Permain

You can see how I ended up with 3 of my varieties. Availability can be a bit of a problem, which is why I ended up pulling a bunch of strings to finally get some trees from Britain.

Of course, down in the SE the high rainfall problem is, well, not such a problem. So if I just filter for Scotland I get a nice long list:

Adam's Permain
American Mother
Annie Elizabeth
Arthur Turner
"Beauty of Bath (Schöner v. Bath)"
Bramley's Seedling
Brownlee's Russet (Brownlea's Russet)
Charles Ross
Court Pendu Plat
Crawley Beauty
Discovery
Early Victoria = Emneth Early
Edward VII
Egremont Russet
Ellison's Orange
Galloway Pippin
George Cave
Gladstone
Golden Spire
Grenadier
Howgate Wonder
Irish Peach (Early Crofton)
Jupiter
Katy
Keswick Codlin
King of the Pippin's
Lane's Prince Albert
Laxton's Fortune
Laxton's Superb
Lord Derby
Lord Lambourne
Merton Knave
Monarch
Norfolk Royal
Redsleeves
Sam Young = Irish Russet
Stirling Castle
Sunset
Suntan
Tydeman's Early Worcester
White Melrose
Winston (Winter King) !
Worcester Permain

I reckon, if they grow in Scotland, they grow here... and once that's sorted I can put them together by eater or cooker, pollination partners, keeping qualities etc.

Oh, and the list also contains pears, plums-gages-damsons as well.
Anyone who wants it, send me a PM. No need to reinvent the wheel.

chook

blowin

Wow , some serious thought has gone into that Wink

.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread but would strongly advise anyone to put at least as much consideration into practical ways of protecting your young trees if you have deer in your area . The same might apply to rabbits but it was definitely deer that reduced my thriving 4 year old orchard to what now looks like a field full of broomsticks . See separate thread for pics of very expensive and heart-breaking broomsticks .

macconraoi · orchard

A great idea for anyone considering planting a few apple trees is to go along to the apple day that irish seed savers hold at the end of September each year.(28 Sept 0 Cool

You get to sample lots of different varieties of apples cookers and eaters, then you can buy or place an order for the apple that you liked and plant it in your garden. This way you know you will get the apples that you like. They are also great to answer any questions you may have.

Graney

Great stuff Chook. I always aspire to make decisions based on sound analysis like that ..... but almost always fall well short.

Can't offer much help from my orchard. Mostly old trees that I was hoping to get identified at ISSA but was away when in England when the apple day happened. Do you know, Chook, whether they would do identification on another day if I turned up with my samples?

The varieties I know have been awful but mainly due to pollination problems this year couple with a bad attack of bullfinches. The buggers are so attractive ... but equally damaging.

Have got some Laxton Superb, but they far from live up to their name as they're very cracked and scabby.

Jonagold produced no fruit, nor did Cox. A few Egremont russet, but very small fruit.

wayland

What a mess! The orchard has now got springs at the surface and the trees may be waterlogged Confused

. Bad news this as I cant get rid of all this ground water. Short of digging trenchies areound the trees there seems nothing that I can do about it. Ho Hum. Crying or Very sad

Graney

Hopefully, the current waterlogging won't be too much of a problem unless it goes right on through to next spring when the trees start into growth again.

At the moment they are shutting down for the winter and not a lot is going on . The leaves won't be demanding moisture or feed so it won't matter too much if the roots aren't really able to function.

With the amount of rain we get in a 'normal' winter most soils here are pretty well waterlogged most of the winter and yet trees grow away OK in the spring. What makes this year different is that we've come into the winter with the soils pretty well saturated so the waterlogging has happened much earlier.

But don't despair, Wayland. It'll all be OK in the Spring Smile

But don't quote me on that

wayland

Thanks for that Graney Very Happy

. I dont usually dispair about much and what will be will be of course. The best thing that I can do is keep off it me thinks, but I will get the digger in at some point and pipe the springs to the ditch at the bottom of the paddock. I am also thinking of growing willows along this ditch as fuel crop. I am sure that they will love it there. Dispite all my bitching about the depth of the soil etc. My veg plot has produced the best crops that I have ever grown. So its not all doom and gloom here.

Cheers.

Graney

Willows sound like an excellent idea for that situation .... they'll certainly stand up to waterlogged conditions - even if it lasts all year round.

Ours have done remarkably well this year .... up to 20 feet of new growth. Haven't yet worked out how best to harvest them for fuel though. I've left some for three years and just harvested the three year stems. They're between 3 and 5cm thick and I've been able to cut all but the very thickest with heavy-duty loppers. I'm going to dry them for 3 months, or maybe longer, in the barn and then saw them into one foot lengths to feed into Stanley.

I'm interested to see whether this is a feasible option to harvesting younger and chipping. Mainly because I don't have a chipper, or the space to dry the chips, or a boiler that will take chips Shocked

By the way, if you want some cuttings Wayland, I should be able to help out. Don't have any willows specifically selected for biomass use, but lots of common osier and a few others which seem to grow pretty well.

wayland

Thanks for the offer Graney Very Happy

. I have about twenty basket willows growing around the little orchard <thanks Blowin> which as you say love the conditions. I will do a bit of research on the best bio mass willows to grow. As I am starting from scratch I may as well use the recomended type. A point for those considering willow for fuel. It spits like crazey and is realy only suitable for enclosed fires like Stanleys and room heaters IMHO. Thanks again Graney.

blowin

As prev mentioned , deer stripped all of my orchard to virtually nothing . They later hammered a lot of the basket and biomass types of willow too altho they ignore the "goat" willow which grows in abundance . GQT on radio 4 today had tips for deterring them . The anecdotal one is lion or tiger poo if you can get it , yeah , or , more practically human hair hung from the branches .We have managed to get some from the local barber but I am sure he thinks we are mad . Apparently rotten eggs or the smell of parafin will also keep them away . Pity we haven't got anything left to try it on !
I think I will put an old chest freezer up there --- to let them know where they will end up if they ever come anywhere near this place again ! Laughing

wayland

Luv the freezer idea LOL. Jays fluid on rags hung around the plot needing protection sometimes works. Alarm guns can also be of use but from what I have seen, what works for one dont necessary work for another. No Deer around these parts, If there was then the freezer would be full of them.

Camile

Well Blowin I know just the man you need for stalking and putting the trouble makers in the freezer ..

macconraoi

Planted ash last year only to have it stripped by deer amazingly we plant a field of kale and turnip every year and the deer wear a path across it and never eat it Shocked

yet any hazel coppice is almost always stripped Sad

wayland

Just a thought. Do you have wild goats in your area?. These can be more trouble than deer me thinks.

phil

Why dont you put a yappy dog on a running tether line near the apple trees,or you could use a lurcher type dog and maybe catch your dinner.