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tractorpunk

Best way to home kill?

Whats the best way to despatch your pig?
Would you recommend stunning and bleeding or shooting
What tips have any of you got for the inexperienced
Ken Louis

Hi Tractorpunk,

I have slaughtered my own animals for some years and I don't think it is something you should be trying to learn off the internet.  Ideally you should watch someone do it, do one under their supervision, then if it goes well and you are a fast learner you may be able to do it on your own steam. There are good reasons for this: it is in your interest and in your animal's interest that it is slaughtered humanely safely and hygienically. I do not mean to be sanctimonious or patronising but I don't think anyone asking basic questions about shooting stunning and bleeding should take on pig slaughter by themselves.
The other option is to give a good local abattoir a few quid to do the job. It will be quick and humane, in the hands of an experienced pro, you won't have to worry about disposing of waste and the presentation of the cuts will be a hell of a lot better than you or I could manage. The last point will be  much appreciated by the cook in your life!

Rearing your own quality animal for the table is a fine achievement but an bad experience with home slaughter will take the good out of it to put it mildly.

Regards

Ken
phil

Hello tp.
If you are using a captive bolt to stun the animal you get a better result when you stick the animal.(if you want to save the blood)
A shotgun or rifle will do the job just as well but it kills rather than stuns the animal.
tractorpunk

thanks Phil, the pigs time is nearly up and, given the recources to hand, my options are shoot it or stun and stick.
 I've tried to source a captive bolt but to no avail so it would have to be a sledge, a 7 pounder as I reckon its easier to swing accurately and less likely to kill. I could lift the pig easily with the tractor loader and bleed it out, saving the blood.
next option is a shot gun, too messy and wastefull I think
If anyone has any practical advice, that would be usefull

Admin, if this is making you nervous then please just delete the entire thread and we'll forget all about it,
clancy76

i have part taken in a few home kills one was stuned with a thump on the head with sledge(a bit dodgey i think if the pig moves its going to cause destress for everyone) then stuck, the other ones were shot with rifle rounds the same as used for deer ,but you wouldnt be able to save the blood because of the kicking not unless you get it lifted super quick.i thought the rifle shot ones were best as it was very humane she was just eating feed of the ground and then gone.
phil

Surprisingly the shotgun does very little damage if any to the carcass compared to the higher powered rifle.
tractorpunk

I could arrange a deer rifle, might be the best option. cheers
Ken Louis

Tractorpunk,

I have no idea how admin is hearing this but it is making me EXTREMELY nervous.

Not for reasons of squeamishness either.  How on earth can humane slaughter be learrned over an anonymous internet forum - who in their right mind would approach a living creature, which can feel pain and fear,  with a mere paragraph of instructions in their head and be assured of doing the job humanely and properly???

The idea of using a deer rifle point blank is very worrying, and could be a threat to people in a wide diameter around the slaughter site.  The bullet is highly likely to pass through the unfortunatre animal, and could exit in any direction if it clips a bone.  The danger of an accident or a ricochet should make you think again.  I am leaving aside altogether the idea of using sledgehammers etc, it is absurd to think anyone would consider doing something like that on the basis of glib advice offered over the internet.

It is really rather worrying to think that a pig that has lived an idyllic life on a small holding could meet a grisly end like this.

For God's sake, talk to a butcher or a licenced slaughterman.

Don't go down the Google & DIY path.

Or take a few quid out of the bank and get your rashers and a nice bit of back bacon in Tesco.

This thread is truly mad!!!!!!!!

I got into trouble and repeatredly ganged up on for occasionally adopting a sarcastic tone - and this is tolerated?????  

What kind of a forum is this????

Ken
admin

tractorpunk wrote:
...... Admin, if this is making you nervous then please just delete the entire thread and we'll forget all about it,

Thanks for the thought , tp , I take it at face value .
It was not my intention to imply that home kill of pigs is illegal . AFIK it is perfectly legal tho' there may be regulations around the procedure eg presence of a vet , inspection of liver , disposal of waste , etc . I don't know . It would be good if we can review our collective understanding of the law because the earlier threads on this specific topic may be out of date by now  . I will start a new thread on that because it warrants one of its own and it wasn't actually relevant to my decision to edit .
Neither did I intend to imply that home kill is inhumane per se . IMHO it is less traumatic for the animal than a trip to an uncaring abattoir provided it is done properly .
I generally take it as read that anyone who sincerely asks for advice on here will take some note of it and have the common sense to back it up with further advice and physical instruction , as necessary . Else they wouldn't bother to ask in the first place .
And finally back to the main point about my edit . My only concern was that someone's name might inadvertently become associated with an emotive activity , whether they were actively involved with it or not . There was no chance of checking with the authors of the posts or the named person at 3 in the morning so I played safe and deleted the name . I will be happy to put it back if that person wants me to . There was certainly no intention to publicly rebuke the authors but I couldn't see any way of totally negating that implication .
tractorpunk

[quote="admin:12542" There was certainly no intention to publicly rebuke the authors but I couldn't see any way of totally negating that implication .[/quote]

Admin- your forum, your rules, I have no problem with that

 I posted this question on another forum with a strong emphasis on self-sufficiency. the admin, a keen advocate for home kill, recommends a .410 shotgun. he goes on to say..
 "Captive bolt is not ideal on big pigs.
I know the local knackermen refuse to use the CB on big pigs, and all carry a shotgun in the cab of the lorry for the purpose"
tractorpunk

home killing your pig is an old Irish tradition, deep rooted in a rural way of life and something all my neighbours remember from the not too distant past. No doubt someone will try to outlaw it, and tell me not to drink my unpasteurised milk.
phil

 "Captive bolt is not ideal on big pigs.
I know the local knackermen refuse to use the CB on big pigs, and all carry a shotgun in the cab of the lorry for the purpose"[/quote]

There shouldn't be any problem shooting big sows and boars with a captive bolt as long as the correct cartridges are used.
I think the price puts most people off, a good captive bolt will cost £450 £500,a good single barrel shotgun for as little as £60 £70.
Ken Louis

tractorpunk wrote:
home killing your pig is an old Irish tradition, deep rooted in a rural way of life and something all my neighbours remember from the not too distant past. No doubt someone will try to outlaw it, and tell me not to drink my unpasteurised milk.


I don't see anything wrong with it, if it's done right.

I just think that your neighbours memories related to skilled people who learned their craft from skilled people.  On the job, as it were.

I don't think canvassing opinions on the internet is the same thing.

Ken
Monst

Ken, whilst we all apreciate your point here, and i am sure we all advocate humane slaughter of animals, I really dont think you are giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.
I feel sure that no-one would attempt a slaughter after a few lines seen online. TP I am sure was just using this  forum as it is intended, gleaning information and assistance when required Whilst no-one on here will have all the information required, between us all, there could end up a consensus of opinions which allow TP or any-one else for the matter to make an educated decision.

The hint is in the title, "Country talk and tips"
Ken Louis

Fair point Monst.

Yours is is the very first reply to the point I was making, so pardon the repetition.  I accept what you are saying.

I may have been assuming that people weren't getting the point I was trying to explain, when in fact they were ignoring me!  Which they are entitled to do.

On the core issue, I have used various firearms in the past for slaughter: shotgun, rifle, free bullet humane killer, and I never found them satisfactory.  They're not designed for it, there's way too much drama and hazard & collateral damage for my liking.  Hammers, sledges, poleaxes I have steered clear of - too primitive & unpredictable,  and I really think it is worth borrowing a captive bolt (which will probably come with an operator attached!).

Ken
blowin

It is probable that an experienced member will have pm'd further advice and an offer of skilled supervision / assistance . That's the way this forum tends to work once you are known to it , so to speak .
The same would apply to disclosure of "secret" / favourite fishing marks , foraging places and suchlike   .
admin

3 recent posts split off and moved to "pig kill -- soap 1 " under Contentious chat here  http://countrytalkandtips.myfreeforum.org/about2410.html

Please continue on-topic discussion below  
Ken Louis

blowin wrote:
It is probable that an experienced member will have pm'd further advice and an offer of skilled supervision / assistance . That's the way this forum tends to work once you are known to it , so to speak .
The same would apply to disclosure of "secret" / favourite fishing marks , foraging places and suchlike   .


I see.

And when reading this forum, one would have to calculate how much off-forum information was being secretly transmitted in parralell to the online discussion before deciding how to reply?

This is very difficult and complex for novices like myself, so you must pardon the occasional error.

Ken
admin

No need for anyone to try to guess what is said by pm . That is no more relevant than what might be discussed over the phone or down at the pub  
dizandstell

Hi TP. Dont forget the humble .22 rimfire. Using hollow point would minimise the possibility of ricochet. From experience using the LR, is more than up to the job from Cattle to Goat.
Have a look at this youtube clip. An Air rifle (presuming 20 ft/lb plus muzzle velocity) was used to good effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYnG5pQuOw

Cheers

Diz
tractorpunk

yet another perspective, thanks Diz
Camile

Hello,

Are the pigs edible now ? or are they still on trotting around.

Deep in the irish countryside there is always someone in the know to show you how.

It's a hidden tradition now, but not forgotten as such.

Camile
tractorpunk

Hi Camile, pig is still alive and kicking. another couple of weeks to go
Ken Louis

dizandstell wrote:
Hi TP. Dont forget the humble .22 rimfire. Using hollow point would minimise the possibility of ricochet. From experience using the LR, is more than up to the job from Cattle to Goat.
Have a look at this youtube clip. An Air rifle (presuming 20 ft/lb plus muzzle velocity) was used to good effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYnG5pQuOw

Cheers

Diz


Killing a pig with an air rifle just gives home slaughter a bad name, and makes us all out to be amateurish and irresponsible.

However anything seems to go on this forum.

Ken
blowin

Excuse my ignorance ( memory ) but what are "rimfire" and LR  ? Rimfire uses explosive cartridges rather than air/gas propelled pellets and LR is Long Range ???
And an Air rifle with that sort of muzzle velocity would not be your average pop-gun ?
Camile

Hello,

LR is for Long Rifle, a slight different ammo for the .22 and are not air rifle as you said Blowin.

Camile
Ken Louis

blowin wrote:
Excuse my ignorance ( memory ) but what are "rimfire" and LR  ? Rimfire uses explosive cartridges rather than air/gas propelled pellets and LR is Long Range ???
And an Air rifle with that sort of muzzle velocity would not be your average pop-gun ?


dizandstell linked to a video of someone killing a pig with an air rifle. Its going to take a lot more than your interpretation of technical acronyms to convince me this is quick safe and humane for the unfortunate muicín. However I realise I am in a minority of one and would fit in lot better on this thread if I stopped trying to talk common sense.  I should just make a ludicrous suggestion like so many others.

Have you considered a Baratt Sniper Rifle?

Ken
macconraoi

I think it is not responsible to suggest that an air rifle is suitable to kill a pig.
admin

I am assuming that dizandstell's specific reference to a minimum muzzle velocity of 20 ft/lb means that he is talking about something much more powerful than an "ordinary" air rifle .
I have done a bit of googling to see if I could compare that to something else that we might be more familiar with eg .22 rimfire but TBH I can't make much sense of the technicalities .
Perhaps diz will explain ?

In any event I agree that someone without specialist knowledge on the subject could take the post to mean that any air rifle would do the job so must make it clear that this weapon is generally NOT suitable .

I should also take this opportunity to reiterate that this forum does not endorse any activity which is outwith the law . Neither is it qualified to interpret the law for anyone . It may attempt to present relevant information ( without accepting any responsibility for errors or omissions )  but everyone must be responsible for their own conclusions .
dizandstell

The youtube clip was to demonstrate the effectiveness  of the smaller calibre.  Its ability to kill without unacceptable tissue damage and ricochet. Using a Barrett sniper rifle (assuming you are referring to the Light 50) would certainly  be unacceptable for the job in question.
The rimfire ammunition comes in three lengths. Long, short and cb cap. Different lengths for different jobs. The LR also comes in High velocity and Low velocity. The rimfire nomclature   refares to the firing pin striking the rim of the round to pinch a disc primary and ignites the cordite.
Air Rifles have come in many velocity's for quite some time. They have been used to hunt man on the battle field to bunnys in the back yard. The humble 12 foot pound (f/lb) would be used as a minimum for Rabbit sized quarry at around 40 meters. 20 f/lb can humanely despatch Fox at the same range. Battle Field Sharp shooters with Air Rifles had many a wary General sat on Horses. The advantage the Air Rifle had over muzzle loaders was consistency.  The Air was rammed into a sphere reservoir by ramrod. Once it was full, it would produce the same velocity consistently.  The Powder gun had to many variables in powder and shot to do the same. Also, there would be no pan or muzzle flash/smoke to compromise the Sharp shooter position. The word Sniper would not be used until later as it was a British Army in India term. 'He who consistently shoots Snipe'
The smaller calibre 22 is the prefared calibre for animal slaughter in many country's. The hungry animals head goes into the feed bucket and the deed done. No fuss or adrenalin rush. The Pig in the clip was tied to the tree by its lower Mandible. Not my cup of tea either, but it showed the effectiveness of the smaller calibre.

Cheers

Diz
Ken Louis

Look, Diz, we're clearly not going to agree, I think what you are doing is totally irresponsible, and reckless advice to anyone contemplating acting on it.  Le cúnamh Dé I can only hope our fellow countrymen will have more sense than to heed you.

The secret of the deadly high calibre high muzzle velocity airgun clearly evaded the attention of the world's armies and police forces in recent years.  The same goes for war of independence in this country.  Ammunition was scarce, but if they had airguns, the rebel songs would sound a lot different........

"Come out ye Black and Tans,
Come out and fight me like a man,
I have a high muzzle velocity airgun............"

My suggestion to use a Barratt Sniper rifle was not 'aimed' at you, but at the person from the other end of the spectrum who was going to blow his muicín away with a deer rifle.

I am not going to waste any more time on a tiresome circular argument.

Fire away!  .....just not with an airgun

Ken
Ken Louis

admin wrote:
I am assuming that dizandstell's specific reference to a minimum muzzle velocity of 20 ft/lb means that he is talking about something much more powerful than an "ordinary" air rifle .
I have done a bit of googling to see if I could compare that to something else that we might be more familiar with eg .22 rimfire but TBH I can't make much sense of the technicalities .
Perhaps diz will explain ?

In any event I agree that someone without specialist knowledge on the subject could take the post to mean that any air rifle would do the job so must make it clear that this weapon is generally NOT suitable .

I should also take this opportunity to reiterate that this forum does not endorse any activity which is outwith the law . Neither is it qualified to interpret the law for anyone . It may attempt to present relevant information ( without accepting any responsibility for errors or omissions )  but everyone must be responsible for their own conclusions .


Thanks admin

Re It may attempt to present relevant information ( without accepting any responsibility for errors or omissions )  but everyone must be responsible for their own conclusions .

That is a fair point admin, and the rules are yours to devise & enforce as you see fit.

I wouldn't expect to last long on this forum if I was advocating racism, sexism, murder etc.

I assumed that advocating measures potentially cruel to defenceless sentient animals in our care would be similarly sanctioned.  Pigs eat our surplus food, and provide a winter of tasty pork & home cured bacon, and all that is asked of us is to give them a good life and a clean death.

I say leave the pop-guns in the Enid Blyton stories.

My last word on a tiresome subject at this stage.

Ken
dizandstell

Can I point out that I have not advocated the use of an Air rifle to kill Pigs in any post. The youtube clip was to highlight the prowess of the smaller calibres available. In Hind sight, this was probably a poor clip to choose. Any one without any knowledge of fire arms could think that Air rifles are more than acceptable for the job.  To call any firearm a 'pop gun' is irresponsible, as this will only lead to complacency and accidents. The Barret rifle was designed for the military to shoot light armoured and soft skinned vehicles, not soft tissue as the Deer calibres are. The Army's and Police around the world have looked at the calibre which suits there needs best. The smaller prefared  military calibre (5.56 mm) is designed to maim. The rifle needs to be reloaded quickly and have an automatic capability. Air Rifles cannot fill these criteria. The larger Calibres (7.62/9mm) are designed to kill. To bring a Air Rifle to these Calibres would have an unusable large lump of a firearm.
Ken, your song just wouldnt work! Sink a couple of pints and have a go at singing it. As for your last word, I hope not. Bring something to the table. But look at the title of the post.
TP. Many apologies for steering your topic 'Off Topic'

Cheers

Diz
tractorpunk

dizandstell wrote:
 
TP. Many apologies for steering your topic 'Off Topic'


No problems, I've gone vegetarian, anyone know how to home-kill a lettuce?
dizandstell

Take it to your local butcher is the short version  

Cheers

Diz
wombat

Have a heart TP

admin

   
Diz -- many thanks for all of that detail . Fascinating stuff .
I take it that an  "ordinary" Air Rifle which someone might have obtained just for small quarry such as rats and rabbits would probably not have a muzzle velocity anywhere near 20 ft/lb  ? So if , and clearly against your advice , anyone were to even contemplate using an Air rifle on bigger quarry they should first make absolutely certain that it has adequate power to do the job .

This would obviously apply to any weapon for any animal and is precisely the point you were making .
sir. porky

Guys

tp great thread.Congratulations for stirring things up nicely.
We've killed a good few pigs-some,because we wanted to,some,because we had to.We usually have help.If one thinks,one can kill a pig by him-or herself ( with the help of a tractor or not) don't be fooled.The job has to be done in a lively fashion.
 Forget about high powered rifels,3.4 cal+,as this is likely to pass right through the poor thing,ruining half the meat on it's way with the possibility of injuiring or killing standers by. Air rifle?? not so sure forget it. shot gun no problem that will do the job every time. The only important thing is not to let the animal suffer in any way. however you do the job make it quick and clean ( the meat will be all the better for it)
There are experianced people around who will help even in galway i,m sure.
P.S  as far as i,m aware the law states if you  eat the meat ,don,t sell or give away the meat you are with in the law to "home KiLL" your own pig failing that any injuired animal can be killed at home, for home use.
  Sir.porky
blowin

admin wrote:
.....
I take it that an  "ordinary" Air Rifle which someone might have obtained just for small quarry such as rats and rabbits would probably not have a muzzle velocity anywhere near 20 ft/lb  ? .....

I can see what Admin was getting at . He was thinking of the situation as it applies in the uk but it won't make sense in the ROI .

Wikipedia " re United Kingdom air gun/rifle laws :
Air pistols generating more than 6 ft·lbf (8.1 J) or air rifles generating more than 12 ft·lbf (16.2 J) of energy are considered firearms [15] and as such require possession of a Firearms Certificate (F.A.C.). Pistols and rifles below this energy level are unlicensed, and may be purchased by anyone over the age of 18. "

So if anyone thought that more-or-less any any air rifle would be capable of killing a pig he could simply borrow or buy one over the counter and give it a go . The more powerful of the unregulated air rifles can punch a hole thru an impressive thickness of wood and there are plenty of warnings that they can kill people so it is conceivable that someone would think they could kill a pig .
Admin was presumably trying to emphasise Diz's point that a muzzle velocity of at least 20 ft/lb is required and this is not an unregulated weapon , so don't even think of trying it with one which anyone over 18 can buy in the uk  . Preferably not at all .

If I understand it correctly , the law in the ROI states that any air gun/rifle , regardless of muzzle velocity , is deemed to be a firearm . Ownership requires a full Firearms Certificate etc , so these weapons are not going to be knocking around for casual use as they are in the uk . Admin's concern is therefore largely irrelevant in the ROI .

While on the subject it is worth pointing out that ROI law prohibits the use of air guns/rifles for killing anything ( even small animals ) .  

TP -- very sorry , your thread has been well and truly hijacked .
What do you use to protect your lettuce ?
blowin

Re: Guys

sir. porky wrote:
....   P.S  as far as i,m aware the law states if you  eat the meat ,don,t sell or give away the meat you are with in the law to "home KiLL" your own pig failing that any injuired animal can be killed at home, for home use.....     Sir.porky

Hi Sir Porky , the challenge is to identify precisely which piece of legislation authorises home kill for human consumption , or even for dog food for that matter  . Can we find any official reference to it or is it just a rural myth ?

And given that it appears to be legal to home kill a sick or injured animal under certain circumstances , do you have to get the carcass removed by ( ??? authorised knackers ?? ) to prove that you haven't killed it for consumption ?
It would be handy if you could put any comments under the separate thread , here : http://countrytalkandtips.myfreeforum.org/about2403.html
Cheers .
tractorpunk

job done. calm, quick, clean, efficient. I'd like to think even Ken would've approved

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