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Torc · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 108 Location: North Clare

A friend has just been turned down by the Dept of Agriculture for a pig herd number. He built a smashing ark and has a big fenced in run and he lives in a rural area.
The inspector was negative from the word go. She complained that he had a dog, that the pig paddock had a dry-stone wall and that there was no 'run-off provided for effluent' He was just going to fatten a couple of weaners so there would not have been any effluent.
Does anyone know what the regulations say? What grounds does the Dept of Ag have for refusing a herd number?
I suspect that this could be part of an effort to force self-sufficiency pig-keepers out of the market. Maybe the factory producers are complaining about us. This inspector did mention that TV programmes were to 'blame' for people keeping pigs.
Time to get an organisation going to stand up to this bullying or we'll all be excluded.

macconraoi · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject:

I have never heard of anyone being refused.In my experience Inspectors are helpful and positive towards people and if a problem is encountered a solution is normally found.Is this the personal opinion of the inspector?
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blowin · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject:

I don't know the fine details of the regs but that sounds a pretty extreme stance for the inspector to have taken . I can't see what a stone wall has got to do with the welfare of the animals . Perhaps he/she is confusing the issue and is more concerned about destruction of an old wall ? If so then a line of electric in front of it should surely suffice ? AFIK you don't need to worry about slurry if you have just a few pigs on open ground ( with waterways adequately fenced off ) and don't intend to keep them indoors . As Macconraoi has commented , the inspectors in my experience have always been helpful provided that you have the animals' welfare high in your priority .
Sounds to me like he/she has been watching too many of those tv progs and has little experience of the practical side . Can you ( or your friend ) appeal to someone a bit higher up the ladder ?

patmk · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject:

write to the dept and ask for reasons and under which section of which law were you refused
say that only what seemed to be personal reasons were given on the day, as these animals would grazing and forraging in a field you didnt think that goats or cattle or pigs in a field needed run-off provided for effluent, and as your dog may be used to herd your pigs does all animal keepers need to get rid of their dog or is it only new animal keepers need to do this.
also will the dept allow you to alter, remove or knowingly distroy a wall which I believe may be protected under the monuments act as a wall used in times gone by as a pig pen and you only want to restore it to its original uses
]
ps I will visit you in jail if this doesnt work

good luck
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admin · Site Admin Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 227

patmk · Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:26 am Post subject:

write to the dept and ask for reasons and under which section of which law were you refused
say that only what seemed to be personal reasons were given on the day, as these animals would grazing and forraging in a field you didnt think that goats or cattle or pigs in a field needed run-off provided for effluent, and as your dog may be used to herd your pigs does all animal keepers need to get rid of their dog or is it only new animal keepers need to do this.
also will the dept allow you to alter, remove or knowingly distroy a wall which I believe may be protected under the monuments act as a wall used in times gone by as a pig pen and you only want to restore it to its original uses
]
ps I will visit you in jail if this doesnt work

good luck
_________________
We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile

dara · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Mayo

There are two ways of dealing with these high flyers of the civil service. You can speak in servile tones so they don't suspect that you think you are their equal. This approach is usually adopted by blow-ins. The other is to confront their arrogance and threaten to involve the local TD who so happens to be your brother/sister in law.
What doesn't work is to be polite and reasonable as they will think you are a twit.

If I were your mate I would apply for the number again saying that he had made provisions to overcome the inspectors reservations. Lock the dog up and move the site. This time make sure he has a knowledgeable witness, he could get his local IFA rep or if he is a teagasc client he could ask his advisor to attend - or he could get his mate to pretend to be either. Because the department is splitting at the seams with 'inspectors' in all likelyhood he'll get someone else next time anyway.

Torc · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 108 Location: North Clare

Further details on that inspection.
These were the objections: no disinfectant bucket for wellies; a gabion wall (this is one of those wire cage yokes filled with stones and the objection was that it was too low at one metre and that the stones were sharp and could cut a pig); only one ark (a second one is required to isolate a sick pig); seperate feeding troughs for each animal to prevent bullying; effluent drainage; the ark was too small for two pigs at 8'x6'; there was no trailer available to be inspected; the run was too small at approx 6M x 5M; dog running loose.
She is returning for a further inspection soon.
I should point out that I am over the border in the next county and my own inspection was terrific. The inspector stayed and had tea and thought my own rough and ready ark was great.

dara · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 186 Location: Mayo

Petty stuff. He should ask her if she's ever been round a commercial piggery. I worked in one with a weaner mortality rate of nearly 15%, unacceptable but unavoidable as most of these places are stricken with pig wasting disease. The bit I don't get is the 'effluent drainage' - OK pigs fed ad-lib on a commercial ration will produce slurry dung. The feed is designed to induce this over slats. But those raised on a home mixed cereal ration will produce nothing more offensive than horse shit.
I guess he was just very unlucky.

macconraoi · Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject:

The Ark seems fine to me if its for two weaners,I think the run at 6m x 5m is too small.Are the pigs being controlled with electric fencing ? if they were it is easy enough to keep them away from the wall.

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