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wayland · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: Campile. Wexford

After many years of being an avid believer in dig dig and more dig, I now find myself considering packing it in. Confused

. Its my land that is the problem. Some of it is quite thin over laying dense broken shale. I ploughed it last winter and removed many barrow full of stones. If I plough it this winter the same will happen. So much for why, now do any of you have the same problems?. If I don't dig then will my yield drop? Any advice guys?

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Torc · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 108 Location: North Clare

Hi Wayland,
I've been a no-digger for the past two years and have seen no drop-off in yield. But I only have a few raised beds and these are fed with the sweepings of the henhouse, by way of the compost heap. I don't know why I wasted all those years of hard manual labour.
Are you by any chance talking about field-scale growing? I want to try this but can't see how to apply no-dig techniques on a large scale. My organic-farmer neighbour has a little tractor and a lot of labour and gets by with planting green manures and plowing them in.
There was a grower in north Dublin who used to go over his field with a flame weeder and he got good results as well. I'd need a flame-thrower for my bramble patch.

Marie · Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 43 Location: Galway

This is something that im very interested in. I have been experimenting with raised beds. We had very very bad soil, heavy lumpy clay that had no soakage. it either would hold water on surface or dry out and crack.
I tried 3 diff methods on my raised beds
1.using peat compost on beds and digging etc etc hard work
2.using our own compost and digging etc.hard work
3. using fresh manure and dumping it on top, keep doing this every few weeks and let rest for 3-4mths.

The first method resulted the worst. it cost the most in money and labour, there is none/little worm population which i think links directly with soil quality. It would dry out on good weather and still very grey clumpy no matter how much a digg and hoe, pure yields which were weak to disease and pests.
The second method was much better, but loads of labour. Medium worm population , soil a little darker and spongy. good yield, not drying out.

Third method was the easiest. just dumped barrow loads of fresh sh*t again and again and left it alone. After 4 mths i started to work. I was shocked by how great the soil was. It was a worm city in there, the soil was so almost black and soft and airy. The worms had worked all the manure into the soil and there was no clumps or anything. Wonderful to work with, so easy to hoe as its so soft. it doesnt hold water and yet on the hottest soil is dump just under the surface. everything here grew wonderful with no disese or pest issue except caterpillars that didnt seem to effect the plant health.

So from now on im not using my compost heap, i feed the veg material to the pigs and all manure straight onto an idle veg bed to rest for 4/5mths. I found that using the other methods, after one crop, the soil was spent, but with using this method, i could get several seasons from it. so i am rationing beds to heavily mulch now.
theres my thought on it anyways

gilly · Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:58 am Post subject:

We are on very rocky ground. So for the large Veg Patch, we got a digger and dug out the rock and stone. Then bought in good soil and filled the patch with that. In the tunnels we have made raised beds so they are easy enough to handle. But still had to buy soil in to fill them. Oh the joys!

blowin · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject:

I still feel compelled to dig but now think that is more to do with the conditioning of my brain rather than the soil ! We were always told you had to do that and the veg patch never felt right unless it had been turned over in the autumn . But Bob Flowerdew , who is one of the few "experts" I respect never digs . The secret is apparently not to compact the soil either eg by walking over the ground while weeding it . Best to stand on a permanent pathway or put boards between the rows and hoe to keep the weeds down .
Did you see the recent tv prog about "permaculture" ? That is a method where you neither dig nor weed , just get the balance right then let nature take care of the crops which you plant in moderation . Fascinating concept but I fear wouldn't work in this environment where the scutch grass , rushes and flags take over so quickly .

wayland · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: Campile. Wexford

Thanks lads Laughing

. All interesting stuff. There is alot of sense in leaving it to the earth worms me thinks. I am not talking about field scale enterprises although direct drilling has been around for years of course. My veg patch is about 3/4 of an acre and would require alot of dung to have any effect. However if a good dunging would last for a number of years then by doing a section every year it may be possible. I also use chicken dung to activate the compost heaps. I have five heaps which hold about 1 1/2 tons each which sounds alot but the ground eats it, so there is another good reason to get the pigs in. In regard to being brain conditioned to dig Confused

. Which makes sense to increase the top soil depth, This cant apply to my soil as the subsoil is rock. I have just come back from Connemara and to see what those lads have to work with!!!!!. They just pile up seaweed each year. Good for them.
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MrsL · Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject:

Never dug here, but raised beds on a garden scale; homemade compost and goat/chicken manure spread and left for nature to do the work. Straw mulch is useful if you can spare it. I get good results. Would be interested to see if it could be done on a larger scale - long anrrow beds? Not sure, but should be in theory. I practice parts of permaculture, but not others,same with biodynamics. I pick and choose what I like and what fits in with how I do things, which is where the no-dig comes in. Beds here not dug for 12 years, apart from the potatoes when harvesting. Works for me.
My dad used to gather seaweed from the shore (smelly coming home in the van, those were the days Laughing

) adn spread for the winter; his veg always did well.If I lvied enarer I would do this too.
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Torc · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 108 Location: North Clare

I'm wondering about field-scale no-digging (no-ploughing) myself. I am thinking of trying a long ridge of seaweed, hay, compost and whatever else I can lay my hands on and do a row of spuds. If it works out, I'll add more rows.

Marie · Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 43 Location: Galway

you should google : sepp holzer
An austrian farmer that farms 150hectacres using permaculture. very interesting results. search for it in you tube and it shows you his farm and how he uses rocks as natural heaters and uses no machinery at all except when prepping new land. He keeps cattle, hens , pigs, fish and has over 30,000 friut trees. he never buys any feed into his farm except batters for hay for winter for cattle. he even supplies his neighbours with electricity using water. he also grows veg and grain on a large scale also.
Let me know what you think

Torc · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 108 Location: North Clare

Wonderbar!