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wayland · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: Campile. Wexford

Very soon we shall have to decide on what kind of heating system to install here. Confused

I hate the idea of oil. It is only going to get more expensive year by year let alone the environmental issues. but what is a better alternative?. I wanted to fit a wood pellet jobby but have heard variable reports as to their efficiency. Many locals have replaced them with oil. Any thoughts?

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Graney · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 81 Location: East Clare

Lots of mixed thoughts, Wayland .... but they'll probably only serve to confuse.

Like you, we are determined to install a new heating system - poor old Stanley needs pensioning off. Actually, in case he's listening, he's going into the barn to finish his days as a workshop heater - and a fine use for him I think.

We certainly don't want to go for oil, but the first quote we got for a woodchip boiler was huge. I reckon it would be 10 years before we broke even compared with an oil installation at current prices.... and that's after the grant.

But I'm a bit dubious about the grant situation. The approved installer thing seems to be anti-competitive and boilers that are price x elsewhere in Europe are price x + y here and amazingly, y usually seems to be about the same as the grant. So instead of the buyer pocketing the grant, it goes to the installer. Perhaps I'm being too cynical here, but that's the way it seems.

The other big factor is that under the second phase of the grant scheme you have to provide approved bulk storage which is €2000+ - not far off the value of the grant.

The alternative we're looking at now is a stove with back boiler. The largest available should just about be OK for the number of rads we hope to have. I'm researching prices on that at the moment and will post my conclusions. With this, of course, the grant is smaller but there's no condition requiring bulk storage.

The other killer in all this is the cost of steel flue. For the length we need I've been quoted €1400. That's got to be a joke. Does it come gold plated Wink

So, like you Wayland, I'll be interested in any responses.

blowin · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject:

As an aside , I experimented with planting several different types of willow last year , including one recommended for biomass / fuel . The wild " goat willow " thrives everywhere so I thought my varieties would do the same .
They don't ! Evil or Very Mad

I guess about 90% of the cuttings took root but the rate of growth has varied from practically nothing to trees about 10 ft tall .
Minor variation of the amount of direct sunlight makes a huge difference , as does the proximity of grass to the base of the tree . I already knew about those factors but they are far more important than I had anticipated . Unfortunately it is not as simple as shoving in sticks anywhere and collecting fuel next year but still do-able with a bit of planning .

lofty · Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 65 Location: north mayo

i think myself the jury is still out on the wood pellet boilers. However the austrian companies and those that have been developing the product for a good number of years seem to be fairly good they seem to be quite expensive. I was looking at one particular system which incorporated some solar panels and it was coming to €25000. The savings would obviously be long term on such an item.

Graney · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 81 Location: East Clare

At €25,000 I would suggest the savings would be so long-term it might only be your children that see any benefit Wink

At that sort of price a jury isn't needed to come to a verdict. It's a non-starter.

The quote I have is for a 30kW wood pellet boiler + delivery installation (including the gold-plated stainless steel flue) of €7,766 less the grant of €3000 leaving €4766 to pay plus the cost of bulk storage at €2,200 - a total just shy of €7,000

I reckoned the oil installation would be around €2000 so, with a saving of around €500 a year on fuel costs it would take 10 years for the wood pellet installation to break even. It's rough figures but gives a useful guide.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has been able to get a better quote for wood pellet installation.

We've got loads of willow, blowin and you're right, it's much more sensitive to growing condition - competition for light and with weeds - than you might think. I think we discussed it on another thread, but the problem then is how do you prepare it to be used as a fuel. You have to get the moisture content down and chip it to an even size so that it can be used in automated feed systems. I haven't found a feasible economic way of doing this yet.

Camile · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject:

Hello,

We installed some evacuated tubes last year and they are definitely well worth the investment ... as it's been a good few weeks, even months now that we don't need to have a fire to have hot water ..

and the plus about them too is that they take the chill off the water even in the winter, therefore within an hour or so that the stove with backboiler is lite. the radiators kicks in ...

we took a mulberry stove (the biggest) and it can heat up to 10 radiators ... plus you have all the heat in the room where the stove is .. and you can burn about anything in them .. and as a big capacity so it burns overnight ... and you can keep the fire going for weeks without "reliting" it ..

but with the turf ban coming into place, I think we'll have to look at alternatives to heat the place up ... but we have the turf cutting right on our bog, wich we are looking to sell out to invest in another heating system.

but to start with I would double check the insulation on the building, we have a thatched cottage so you can't beat that insulation, and we went for a timber frame for the extension ... wich reduces the heating bill quite a lot ..

Good luck,
Camile

blowin · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:56 am Post subject:

Hi Camile , that sounds good . If it isn't a personal question could you let us know roughly what your panels cost and whether there is a grant available ?

wayland · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: Campile. Wexford

Thanks guys. And so it goes on Confused

Has the grant been cut for the wood pellet boilers?. It was 4200. As to the installation costs Evil or Very Mad

I have become quite the cynic when it comes to "Getting a bloke in". A firm price up front or I look somewhere else, and then look elsewhere is my moto. The cost of the flue pipe is a bit of a shock. I brought a pot bellied stove in the UK only to find that the flue cost more than the stove. Looking further into this the pipe has to have insulation built in so we dont get a cold block. This stops the rising gases and so the fire dont burn right if you catch my drift. I found that the flues that are enameled steel on the outside with a SS inner skin much cheaper than the complete SS job. We want to be environmentally friendly but at what cost?. It would seem to me that the payback period must not be considered as it would be a none starter if it was. If the world governments where serious about carbon foot prints etc then a grant of 4300 is not enough to encourage individuals to get on board me thinks. Rant over Very Happy

. We have an open fire with a back boiler at present. Very inefficient and cost a fortune to run. An oil boiler would in fact be cheaper to run. I wonder if a boiler designed to run on diesel would run on rape seed oil?. Maybe a better alternative to willow. We have got to get this sorted one way or the other. Upgrading the insulation will be the first job. Keep your ideas coming guys. Thanks. Wink

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Graney · Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 81 Location: East Clare

wayland · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: Campile. Wexford

In regard to the enamelled steel flue. I think that this type is made for a gas boiler but I used it for solid fuel and it worked fine and was about a third of the cost. If esthetics's are not an issue it would not be beyond us to insulate a single skinned flue pipe ones self me thinks.

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